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yoshiyoshi
Discussion thread for Super Smash Bros. Melee by yoshiyoshi

Bring on the Mayhem!

This competition is a straight-forward fight to the finish. Items will be on (but not frequent), and all characters may be used.

Each fight will be 4-player Free-For-All, starting with Time-Limited battles (to keep things moving), and eventually culminating in a no-time-limit, 6-life free-for-all battle in the final.

Courses will be chosen on the day (all stationary battlefields), but the final will be Hyrule Temple (bar popular protest).

The battles will be shown on the Respawn Projectors for all to see. But that's not as awesome as being the one to claim the glory!

Oh, and did I mention Streamed Via Projector?

Ready...? GO!
priorax
http://youtu.be/O-7gmds2njg
Plasia
From a competitive standpoint this tournament is complete trash, however it should be fun.
yoshiyoshi
QUOTE (Plasia @ Jan 13 2014, 12:42 PM) *
From a competitive standpoint this tournament is complete trash, however it should be fun.


Well it is scheduled as a 'Fun' game; the idea is that it's something for pretty much everyone to enjoy in some way (even for people who haven't played for years), and to have a laugh at the results :-)
Callum
fox only, no items, final destination
Plasia
Hey, it was great fun winning this event, it was also super hype and that's awesome! Let's talk about optimising this format.

- Keep the stock timer as it was, but have 1 less stock.

- Don't pick temple ever.

- Consider getting rid of some of the campier stages, such as Venom, Princess Peach's Castle, DK Island Kongo Jungle (because of Klap Trap)

- Have a set method for resolving ties. (should happen less with 1 less stock though).


Now some technical suggestions:

Info on Input Lag: http://www.displaylag.com/what-is-input-lag-the-breakdown/

The projector lagged, which sucked but there are a few ways to get melee setup without lag but still have it on the projector.

- Use the monitor out from a CRT TV, this way the game is played on a CRT so there wont be any input lag
- Use a powered splitter to split between a CRT and the projector.

- A more outlandish solution, but one that allows you to use a LCD monitor would be to use a wii and ntsc melee to have melee running at 480p. Then you use a device called wii2hdmi (which I have). Then as long as the display can upscale 480p without causing lag you have melee on a more common LCD Monitor.

- An even more outlandish solution: Combine the above but use Project M instead of melee. Project M has the advantage of adding many characters and the controls and physics are just like melee. The benefit of this is that there is widescreen support.

Contact me for assistance for the next event, I am happy to help.
yoshiyoshi
Thanks for the feedback Plasia! This is the kind of thing I love, as it gives me something to work with laugh.gif

I'm really glad you enjoyed the tournament, and congrats as well for your victory in a scintillating final!

My challenge with Smash Bros. is to keep it entertaining and fun for the competitors and the audience. If you enjoyed it, then it was a success. Smash Bros. is as much a spectator sport as it is a competitive sport, and I know even after I got knocked out I wanted to keep watching.

QUOTE (Plasia @ Jan 23 2014, 04:21 PM) *
- Consider getting rid of some of the campier stages, such as Venom, Princess Peach's Castle, DK Island Kongo Jungle (because of Klap Trap)

Consider it done, especially due to the darkness issue we encountered that resulted in three restarts of a match. Hopefully this will be a 'First Tournament Teething Issue' that doesn't resurface too often.
Venom will possibly stay, but the others you mentioned will not make a return, especially any dark courses.

QUOTE (Plasia @ Jan 23 2014, 04:21 PM) *
- Don't pick temple ever.

Temple was a case of "I opened my mouth, I need to keep my word". It is indeed too large for most competitions, and is probably best left to the free-play time.
......Although I'm sure you'll admit, it made for a tense final match, which made the victory all the sweeter for you smile.gif

QUOTE (Plasia @ Jan 23 2014, 04:21 PM) *
- Keep the stock timer as it was, but have 1 less stock.

- Have a set method for resolving ties. (should happen less with 1 less stock though).

Light-hearted comment ahead! (Highlight to read)

I've never had someone (for lack of a better word) complain about having too many lives before! tongue.gif

On a more serious note, the tie resolution factor definitely needs to be fixed, and your suggestion could be one of the ways out. Consider this issue a 'First Time Tournament' teething problem, and it will be confined to the past if I have my way.

So you're aware, the current method of tiebreaking (although not abundantly clear during the tournament) was based on comparison of Most KOs, then least Self-KOs. After that it gets dicey, so likely would come down to final % of the battlers (I'll need to learn to write fast! blink.gif )
...Could you PM me with any other ideas you may have to get around the issue..? I'll be the first to admit my lack of experience here...

QUOTE (Plasia @ Jan 23 2014, 04:21 PM) *
Now some technical suggestions:

Info on Input Lag: http://www.displaylag.com/what-is-input-lag-the-breakdown/

The projector lagged, which sucked but there are a few ways to get melee setup without lag but still have it on the projector.

- Use the monitor out from a CRT TV, this way the game is played on a CRT so there wont be any input lag
- Use a powered splitter to split between a CRT and the projector.

tl;dr: I'm definitely relying on feedback to work around the Input Lag issue resolved, mainly due to lack of expertise and resources. Information like this is invaluable, and hopefully I can do something with what you've suggested smile.gif .

Highlight to read the long version...

Input Lag... Now this one is a pain for everyone involved, especially the players. What's interesting is that the input lag wasn't bad when we started (as you noted when helping me set up), so I'd like to know how the input lag crept in as time went on.

This is where I show my lack of expertise, and say I don't really notice lag... Unless it starts reaching a second or so, and then I compensate from there. Maybe I'm just lucky.

CRT televisions, as you noted, are starting to get a bit thin on the ground. Some of the Respawn Team and I discussed how to handle the format of the game, but quite simply, the only CRTs I had at my disposal were a (mono) 14" Samsung with no video out, and a massive 30" Sony Trinitron, of which there was no way I could transport to Respawn (too heavy for me, and not enough space in the car with the computer-y bits I was carting).

I'm yet to meet someone who wants to play any game on a 14" CRT anyway, especially if they can see it on a projector. Except for nostalgia purposes. I'm looking at YOU, thatcommander tongue.gif

We'd still far prefer a projector screen (as that means that more people can watch), and I've been jockeying to get the main projector screen on-stage, at least for the final bout. We can only dream.

Discussions are ongoing with the A/V team regarding display format, so bringing a CRT along MAY happen in future, but I can't guarantee it.

QUOTE (Plasia @ Jan 23 2014, 04:21 PM) *
- A more outlandish solution, but one that allows you to use a LCD monitor would be to use a wii and ntsc melee to have melee running at 480p. Then you use a device called wii2hdmi (which I have). Then as long as the display can upscale 480p without causing lag you have melee on a more common LCD Monitor.

I wasn't willing to risk someone else's property in case it got damaged (the risk is there, we're playing a game where people may throw/yank controllers mid-game in frustration by mistake).

The GameCube is my personal property, it was available, it works, and (I hate saying this) I'll survive if it gets damaged. I'd be devastated if a device lent to me for the tournament was damaged or broken.

But hey, if someone's willling to donate a Wii and an large LCD screen that doesn't have input lag issues... happy.gif

QUOTE (Plasia @ Jan 23 2014, 04:21 PM) *
- An even more outlandish solution: Combine the above but use Project M instead of melee. Project M has the advantage of adding many characters and the controls and physics are just like melee. The benefit of this is that there is widescreen support.

Could you PM me about Project M so I can learn a bit about it? I'll be honest, I'm a Nintendo purist, but if it makes the gameplay better then it's time for me to learn a bit more, and will be considered.

Robert (yoshiyoshi)
Plasia
QUOTE (yoshiyoshi @ Jan 27 2014, 10:51 AM) *
We'd still far prefer a projector screen (as that means that more people can watch), and I've been jockeying to get the main projector screen on-stage, at least for the final bout. We can only dream.

Discussions are ongoing with the A/V team regarding display format, so bringing a CRT along MAY happen in future, but I can't guarantee it.


With the monitor out from the crt you still get the game on the projector, if people want to play looking at the projector then go for it!
Plasia
hey yoshiyoshi the fighting game organisation I'm a part of (couchwarriors) also does smash. We'd love to help you out since our annual national tournament is in May. Also I'm coming anyway so might as well do something smile.gif
Zardoz
Yo sir! What would you like to help us out with? smile.gif
Plasia
I can help out with a CRT and a splitter.

Alternatively I have the wii2hdmi, NTSC Melee and a 27" lagless LCD we could use. However I don't have a splitter and this only works if we have a hdmi splitter and the projector accepts hdmi (or DVI-D).
yoshiyoshi
Err... Won't a splitter create lag, defeating the purpose.....? >_< I'll be the first to admit if I'm wrong mind you, just seems logical...

NTSC Melee won't work on my 'Cube as far as I know (could be wrong), and have no Nintendo Wii, but thanks for the offers there laugh.gif

The projector I have access to has RCA and VGA, no DVI as far as I know. The HD ones are being used for broadcasting wink.gif

If you're willing to cart in a CRT and splitter, and the players agree to try it out, it's worth a shot and I'll welcome it. Ultimately, this tournament is for the players enjoyment, not strictly a competitive environment: if bringing in a CRT makes it more enjoyable, and we have the space to accommodate it (which is still dicey) then we'll give it a crack!

Robert (yoshiyoshi)
Plasia
Analog splitters don't cause lag, you're wrong smile.gif Here's a quick reference: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Splitters (speedrunners are as picky about lag as fighting game players)

I'll bring a CRT and a splitter, far easier. I'll chat to you there.
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